In this episode, co-hosts Emma McGrattan and Ole Olesen-Bagneux sit down with Malcolm Hawker, Chief Data Officer at Profisee and author of The Data Hero Playbook, for a conversation about why so many data programs stall, even when teams follow the “right” playbook.

Drawing on years of conversations with data leaders (including his time as an industry analyst), Malcolm argues that what sets successful CDOs apart is rarely technology. It’s a mindset. Along the way, he shares his contrarian take on data mesh, why the term is fading, and what still matters from the movement.

Together, they explore:

• Why “best practices” often fail in the real world

• Growth mindset vs. fixed mindset, and how it shows up in data teams

• The dangerous comfort of “garbage in, garbage out” thinking

• Malcolm’s “data product spectrum” and why one definition won’t cut it

• Why enterprise context still demands some centralization (even in domain-driven models)

🎧 Tune in for a spicy episode on leadership, mindset, and how to create impact in data without hiding behind frameworks

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